Sieg build stage/myth

[Finkster]

Strike

Cross cut - decent damage in a short amount of time. Hits mobs high in the air.

Destruction fist - High damage in 1 shot. Invincible frame. Hard knock down.

Blow - Stun, which can be used to detroy several objects.

Counter attack - Can be used to counter physical attacks. Griffon counter (which is a 1 hit KO with lower HP) is one example.

Iron hammer - activates the AEH set effect. Devastating damage on bosses and mobs, which can't be knocked down.

New destruction fist - Even better damage than the normal one. It can hit twice.

Sword

Crescent Moon sword - Good pushing, flinch and damage.

Hurricane sword - Short casting time, useful against comboable mobs only. Hits mobs that are knocked down.

Flash fate - Can be used from a safe distance. Good dmg for 1 skill point.

Whirlwind wave - Can be used, to flinch bigger mobs. Rather annoying on comboable mobs though. It's rather a last resort skill when you find yourself surrounded.

Kicking - Short cool down. Good combo skill to increase the air combo damage.

Wind kick - High damage when used in an air combo. Knocks mobs down. Can be used as a last resort skill to escape from a mob.

Whirl pool sword - High damage in air combos.

Flying dragon sword - Invincible frame and pushing

Infinity meteor sword - Good combo skill, high damage in the air and hits the mobs even when they are high in the air.

Bless

Provocation - Slow down, short flinch for certain mobs, attracts the attention to the user.

Magic defense - protects you from many magic attacks. Higher level -> longer duration

Rage - mainly the requirement for true rage

Play dead - Can be used to safe yourself from many attacks
Higher level -> longer duration

True rage - increases the str and physical damage

Deadly blow - requirement for rage

[Monsta]

Should be "Magic Defense" , not "Magig". ^^'
Also True Rage Explosion still gives str and critical ? I thought it now gives +50% dmg only.

[Finkster]

Hm, yeah it gives still + str, but +50% physical dmg. Fixing it.

[VandraGor]

1. Why maxed out Provocation? As I've seen for now, all the high level guys who have good sets and longer Lunian history are doing awesomely well in Myths and die rarely. Of course I haven't seen further myths yet, so this opinion is based on myth1 only. Is it really necessary for me to have that skill? I think I'd rather max out damaging skills instead. Naturally you have a free hand to prove me wrong and get ma back on the right track .
2. The skills that are on lvl 1 I assume you've chosen because they are just useful to have and have decent damage on that lvl, but why are some of them on a second level?
3. When we talked last time I think you also said that you prefer Hurricane Sword over Crescent Moon - why such point distrubution then?
4. Magic Defense and Play Dead - as far as I heard about the first one, it can make you avoid even boss attacks, what about Play Dead, is it really that useful with a full party? I had the pleasure of doing a few 7-10 runs last night with the guild and there was barely enough time for me to use all my skills before the mobs were dead.
5. Critical hits - I know that they don't give much, depending on your answer about Play Dead skill (in case you can live withou it), I'd prefer to use this one (love crits).
6. No New Iron Hammer - why?
7. Aren't there too many skills? I'm asking this from a newbie perspective, seems like there're so many I'll faster make a knot out of my fingers than be effective with them .
8. Since this is how the build looks at lvl 75, which skills would you recommend to max out after that?
9. And overally - have you tested this build yourself? I know it is mainly for stages/myth but what would you describe as it's strongest advantage, if I may call it that way? What also comes to my mind is that this build (when speaking about regular stages only) is rather for more experienced players (due to no hp skill?) that know how and when to use so many skills and possess some good set like AFD. It still takes 1 mistake for me to get cornered at certain areas and lose a life stupidly. Could you elaborate on that ?

[Finkster]

(20.08.2010 20:23)VandraGor Wrote:  1. Why maxed out Provocation? As I've seen for now, all the high level guys who have good sets and longer Lunian history are doing awesomely well in Myths and die rarely. Of course I haven't seen further myths yet, so this opinion is based on myth1 only. Is it really necessary for me to have that skill? I think I'd rather max out damaging skills instead. Naturally you have a free hand to prove me wrong and get ma back on the right track .

Adding points to provocation increases the range and slowing percentage. It' a must max imo, because you can quickly flinch and therefore cancel attacks from mobs. The talman in myth can easily stun lock a player and it would be really useful, if you can save a party member without getting in the range of that stun.
In the cobolt raid it's useful to seperate the bosses (3 much stronger versions of Rotem guardian, if you haven't done this raid), because it can attract their attention.

You could have told me, that you only want to myth and deal damage only. Raids and stages require more skill and team work.



2. The skills that are on lvl 1 I assume you've chosen because they are just useful to have and have decent damage on that lvl, but why are some of them on a second level?

Lv 1 skills are mostly added because of their function. Not the damage.

Blow: Main purpose is the stun feature. It's used to cancel Rigels healing, to break Daru's rocks in 3-2 and 3-3 B. It will also be useful in M4.

Counter attack: Max it, if you want. Higher level -> shorter cool down and increased damage, which the countered mob receives.

Crescent moon sword: Level up and you can max it, or just max it before another skill.

Hurricane sword: After thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that the only useful part of this skill is the fact that it hits knocked down mobs and pushes them at the same time. Damage wise it's inferior to CMS.

Flash fate: Situational skill and 1 point wonder. You can leave it at 0, when you go full myth..

Whirlwind wave: It's on level two to increase its duration. It might be useful on uncomboable mobs, but it's plain annoying in myth because it keeps bumping the mobs high in the air. It doesn't deal decent damage either and slows the party down. If you want to stage only I would say lv 4 because two more tornados will be added.

Kicking: As already said it's only used to increase the air combo count in myth and stages. If you want to pvp it's possible to max this. High mp costs though.

Whirlpool sword: Can be maxed with enough sp.

Flying dragon sword: Invincible frame.

Infinity meteor sword: Uneven lvs of IMS can be hardly used for combos unless you have help. I never bothered to find out whether it starts slower, or whether the range decreases at uneven lvs of IMS.



3. When we talked last time I think you also said that you prefer Hurricane Sword over Crescent Moon - why such point distrubution then?

Read above.


4. Magic Defense and Play Dead - as far as I heard about the first one, it can make you avoid even boss attacks, what about Play Dead, is it really that useful with a full party? I had the pleasure of doing a few 7-10 runs last night with the guild and there was barely enough time for me to use all my skills before the mobs were dead.

Stages like 7-10 H can't be considered as difficult, especially with a party full of experienced players with good gear. If you noticed, it's pretty much a myth copy. I suggest you to try out stages such as 3-10, 4-10 and 5-10 L to find the difference.

5. Critical hits - I know that they don't give much, depending on your answer about Play Dead skill (in case you can live withou it), I'd prefer to use this one (love crits).

I don't know which skill you mean.

6. No New Iron Hammer - why?

Skills like destruction fist are the better option here. I heard that you don't even have it.
New Iron hammer doesn't deal decent damage on smaller mobs either and the second slash knocks air comboed mobs in myth down. It's only effective on really big mobs and bosses like Lunia. You can get this whenever you want to, but I don't recommend it.

7. Aren't there too many skills? I'm asking this from a newbie perspective, seems like there're so many I'll faster make a knot out of my fingers than be effective with them .

Maybe you don't know it yet, but you can use two skills bars by pressing "V". Also you can change the key settings anytime. If you don't ram your fingers into the keyboard, you won't hurt yourself.


8. Since this is how the build looks at lvl 75, which skills would you recommend to max out after that?
CMS, whirlpool sword and true rage.

9. And overally - have you tested this build yourself? I know it is mainly for stages/myth but what would you describe as it's strongest advantage, if I may call it that way? What also comes to my mind is that this build (when speaking about regular stages only) is rather for more experienced players (due to no hp skill?) that know how and when to use so many skills and possess some good set like AFD. It still takes 1 mistake for me to get cornered at certain areas and lose a life stupidly. Could you elaborate on that ?

I didn't use this build in particular. All I could try was to mix my knowledge about myth and stages together (Yes you have to distinguish between stage and myth builds.)
It's rather easy to make a build for myth only or stage only characters. Since you asked for a stage/myth build, it's a build, with several defensive skills. If you are fully myth builded, I can simply leave several skills at level 0 and pump them into attacking skills. If you want to do stages, too though, defensive skills surely can be handy again.

HP increasement used to be useful, when people had much lower HP. But now it's quite easy to get decent HP. AFD has the same amount of Vit as the AF set, which can be bought or easily farmed in Bonus 3 :x. Lunia is a game, in which you control the character. It's not a point and click game in which you are bound to receive damage. Also it's recommended to have a healer with you in raids. If skilled enough you can finish a stage without getting scratched (In some boss fights you will have to.)
Certain mobs in myth have 1 hit ko attacks and these 600 HP aren't going to make a difference.

[peil]

I have many problems with this build but since is late and i'm partially drunk, i won't discuss them now, but my problems with that build are:

No whirlwind sword... srsly?.... it's so focking awesome!.... nearly the only area skill of sieg!.... almost no cast.... GO MAX IT!, and yeah, i know that it's hard to combo in myth, but still it does so much dmg!

Play dead lvl 3 is the same as maxing counterattack, it's useful yeah... but not really needed, it's just 10 seconds cooldown out of 45.

Why max true rage for a myth build, those 40 str each level aren't really so awesome, and i know it coz i changed my build after that, don't rely strongly on rages becouse when they get canceled THAT HURTS

With flash fate i'd say 0 too, becouse the skill is nice, yeah... gives good damage yeah... but not enough for the 3 seconds it leaves you totally vulnerable in case you fail or the monster isnt flinchable

Kicking thing which i don't remember name (the skill where sieg stands on his sword and kicks with both feet and then launching forward) Ok, this skill is useful when comboing mobs in myth... But That's all, not worth so many points in such a crappy skill, damage is average, no way to combo after, high usage of mp and it fails at many points if not aimed correctly, definetly not a skill worth 11 points.

Crescent moon and whirlpool sword, both are good skills which have adventages and disadventages, but if you plan using them, max them or leave them at 1/0, don't let them stay unmaxed

Provoke: i agree, always max, not only coz it flinches and enormous range but becouse it doesnt use mp, and that really counts. And you forgot to mention that it lures the monsters after you, which can be really helpful against some annoying monsters, where you can distract them while your party hits them hard on the back (tias for example)

If you don't have a good pool of mp, it's usefull to max it's regen, but not so important. And remember to spend extra points on passive critical which really helps everywhere.

Oh and fink, please tell me where you got that skill simulator, it seems to have the balanced version of sieg?

[VandraGor]

(20.08.2010 23:14)Finkster Wrote:  Adding points to provocation increases the range and slowing percentage. It' a must max imo, because you can quickly flinch and therefore cancel attacks from mobs. The talman in myth can easily stun lock a player and it would be really useful, if you can save a party member without getting in the range of that stun.
In the cobolt raid it's useful to seperate the bosses (3 much stronger versions of Rotem guardian, if you haven't done this raid), because it can attract their attention.

You could have told me, that you only want to myth and deal damage only. Raids and stages require more skill and team work.

I wasn't fully aware of the difference between stages/myth, pls pls forgib

Lv 1 skills are mostly added because of their function. Not the damage.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Blow: Main purpose is the stun feature. It's used to cancel Rigels healing, to break Daru's rocks in 3-2 and 3-3 B. It will also be useful in M4.

Crescent moon sword: Level up and you can max it, or just max it before another skill.

Infinity meteor sword: Uneven lvs of IMS can be hardly used for combos unless you have help. I never bothered to find out whether it starts slower, or whether the range decreases at uneven lvs of IMS.

About Crescent Moon - even when I reached the mobs in myth as the first one, before I finished casting this skill and it actually started flying towards the enemies, some other guy already pushed them away (for example Tia with her, uhm, "multiplying Tias skill". After that, someone else pushed them and so on, so in a way the pushing purpose of this skill fades away a bit in my opinion because there are other faster characters than Sieg and, well, my comp isin't the fastest. Consdering this - would you still recommend it?

Infinity Meteor Sword - before rebirth I had it maxed and now after rb I don't have it maxed yet. Neither have I paid much attention to it, but I haven't really noticed it casting slower on uneven levels or losing range. Still, you are sure that either one of those changes, yes?
As for it's usage, in like 75% of times I managed to cast it succesfully, even on those Talmans you have emntioned and I agree; those are the hardest to use it on. My understanding is that you don't really recommend it either way.

Stages like 7-10 H can't be considered as difficult, especially with a party full of experienced players with good gear. If you noticed, it's pretty much a myth copy. I suggest you to try out stages such as 3-10, 4-10 and 5-10 L to find the difference.

I will trust you on this and use it in 1 month. I'm hoping to be positively surprised .

I don't know which skill you mean.

I probably meant the Deadly Blow skill (the one required for Rage), it has a greenish image, ability skills.

Skills like destruction fist are the better option here. I heard that you don't even have it.
New Iron hammer doesn't deal decent damage on smaller mobs either and the second slash knocks air comboed mobs in myth down. It's only effective on really big mobs and bosses like Lunia. You can get this whenever you want to, but I don't recommend it.

As discussed - I have the New Destruction First but lack the regular one.
You say it's second slash puts the mobs in air to the ground - when I was casting it in myth on already cornered mobs that were in air, second hit (electric sparks) had real problem with hitting them... are you sure about this?

Maybe you don't know it yet, but you can use two skills bars by pressing "V". Also you can change the key settings anytime. If you don't ram your fingers into the keyboard, you won't hurt yourself.

Hehe, I know about the second skill bar, come on, I'm not that retarded . Guess I will have to try and assign new buttons to it.


8. Since this is how the build looks at lvl 75, which skills would you recommend to max out after that?
CMS, whirlpool sword and true rage.

Sir, yes sir!

I didn't use this build in particular. All I could try was to mix my knowledge about myth and stages together (Yes you have to distinguish between stage and myth builds.)
It's rather easy to make a build for myth only or stage only characters. Since you asked for a stage/myth build, it's a build, with several defensive skills. If you are fully myth builded, I can simply leave several skills at level 0 and pump them into attacking skills. If you want to do stages, too though, defensive skills surely can be handy again.

As I wrote somewhere above in this post - I didn't really know that the difference between stages and myths is actually so great - newbie symptome.
Can you provide some examples for the stuff you mentioned here - removal of defensive abilities in favor of damage skills?

HP increasement used to be useful, when people had much lower HP. But now it's quite easy to get decent HP. AFD has the same amount of Vit as the AF set, which can be bought or easily farmed in Bonus 3 :x. Lunia is a game, in which you control the character. It's not a point and click game in which you are bound to receive damage. Also it's recommended to have a healer with you in raids. If skilled enough you can finish a stage without getting scratched (In some boss fights you will have to.)
Certain mobs in myth have 1 hit ko attacks and these 600 HP aren't going to make a difference.

Pardon me but I'm not familiar with the AF set shortcut yet - can you write it's full name (so I actually know what are you talking about ).

With next rebirth I will definitely not spent any skill points in HP/Mana regen thanks to you, so that will be a 16 point save for skills just from that (yay).
Now that you mentioned 1 hit kos... ye, agree even more!

[peil]

Oh and about infinity meteor... it's either lvl 2, 3 or 4, other points will be a waste becouse at lvl 1 it doesn't flinch or (hit?) enought to keep enemies at air, and after lvl 4, it only increases 10 yes... FOCKING TEN DAMAGE each lvl, and that's a waste, and VandraGor, i use more skills than those and i still have many slots for potions and stuff, try using easy accesible keys like (D,F,G)

[VandraGor]

(21.08.2010 00:50)peil Wrote:  Oh and about infinity meteor... it's either lvl 2, 3 or 4, other points will be a waste becouse at lvl 1 it doesn't flinch or (hit?) enought to keep enemies at air, and after lvl 4, it only increases 10 yes... FOCKING TEN DAMAGE each lvl, and that's a waste, and VandraGor, i use more skills than those and i still have many slots for potions and stuff, try using easy accesible keys like (D,F,G)

XDD will try that with next rebirth.

Nevermind the simulator, I found it.

[Finkster]

(21.08.2010 00:40)VandraGor Wrote:  About Crescent Moon - even when I reached the mobs in myth as the first one, before I finished casting this skill and it actually started flying towards the enemies, some other guy already pushed them away (for example Tia with her, uhm, "multiplying Tias skill". After that, someone else pushed them and so on, so in a way the pushing purpose of this skill fades away a bit in my opinion because there are other faster characters than Sieg and, well, my comp isin't the fastest. Consdering this - would you still recommend it?

Using a long cast skill to push the mobs to the wall or a corner is risky, especially when you are the first one to get into attacking range. Myth mobs have a very high attacking range and CMS will most likely be canceled. Rather use skills such as new destruction fist to quickly push them without getting canceled. When the mobs are at the wall, it could happen that they are seperated. 2 mobs in the upper corner and 3 and the lower one. This is when you can use CMS to get them back together for example.

You shouldn't rely too often on the other party members. What do you think will happen, if you get into a party, which contains of 5 Siegs? If you really think your computer restricts you too much from using this skill correctly, you can put the skill points on something else. I really can't tell how bad the fps lag is.


Infinity Meteor Sword - before rebirth I had it maxed and now after rb I don't have it maxed yet. Neither have I paid much attention to it, but I haven't really noticed it casting slower on uneven levels or losing range. Still, you are sure that either one of those changes, yes?
As for it's usage, in like 75% of times I managed to cast it succesfully, even on those Talmans you have emntioned and I agree; those are the hardest to use it on. My understanding is that you don't really recommend it either way.

Try using IMS (Lv 1) after pressing AA+SS. I have tried it and it never works for me. IMS (Lv 2) works fine after AA + SS.
I have received the information about uneven levels from another Sieg user on Ijji lunia. I guess war level 37 speaks for his experience ~.~
Using this skill head on is pretty useless. Mainly use this in air combos, if you happen to get this skill.

I will trust you on this and use it in 1 month. I'm hoping to be positively surprised .

I don't recommend you to get magic defense and to max play dead, if you suddenly decide to myth only. These skills will find regular use in raids and stages only. These skills are also life savers, in case you don't know the attack patterns of the myth bosses. Since you did myth 1 already, you should know that Lunia can easily 1 hit ko you with her Aoe attack. Play dead and magic defense can easily safe you, if you can't make it to a safe spot.


I probably meant the Deadly Blow skill (the one required for Rage), it has a greenish image, ability skills.

Sure, if you like to max this then go ahead. Sieg is a Vit class though and critical hits won't be a problem, in case you have a lot of Vit.

As discussed - I have the New Destruction First but lack the regular one.
You say it's second slash puts the mobs in air to the ground - when I was casting it in myth on already cornered mobs that were in air, second hit (electric sparks) had real problem with hitting them... are you sure about this?

The lightning has to to actually hit the mobs. If they are too high in the air, it will miss of course.


As I wrote somewhere above in this post - I didn't really know that the difference between stages and myths is actually so great - newbie symptome.
Can you provide some examples for the stuff you mentioned here - removal of defensive abilities in favor of damage skills?

I would go like this



Pardon me but I'm not familiar with the AF set shortcut yet - can you write it's full name (so I actually know what are you talking about ).

AF = Ancient fire. To craft the so famous AFD gear you need the AF equipment and the 9th degree Best general one.